Curious as to what 'advanced' froggers expects of sellers, be they via interweb storefront, or show sales, pertaining to selling to known children, many of which are buying their very first frogs. many of which are not ready for darts.
How much resposibility falls on the child, and how much on the adult/s selling to the child?

Rich

before I can answer you'd have to define children. Are we purely talking about age or does the 20 year old hasn't really crossed into adulthood also count as a child?

I think it is more of an issue of case by case. I know some kids who are a lot more mature than others. I run my own business and last summer had some younger high school age guys working for me and they worked better than some of the college guys I had. I would also think that the price tags on the frog would keep kids from just buying frogs without doing some research first, I dont know many kids that will go out and spend a few hundred to get a group of frogs, tank, supplies, etc.

With that being said though, I would hope that the seller would also make sure the parents realized the needs of the animals, and had also educated themselves as to what their kids were getting them into. Obviously at a show it is much easier to do this than with an online transaction, though with all the programs out now for parents to be able to watch what their kids are doing, I would hope the parents would be watching and I would guess it would be their credit card being used to pay for the animals.

Really in the end, I dont think darts are any more difficult than a fish tank. If anything I think they are a little easier after having many fish tanks at one point. I mist the tanks every other day or so, feed the adults 3ish times a week, make flies once a week and thats about it. Given I also mess with my plants and do other stuff, but there is no need for it, I just like taking care of the plants too.

In the most recent cases I am talking about children under the legal driving age who are not ready to own darts , yet are sold them without question.
Ethically I don't care if you are a 100 year old manchild and want darts but not ready, I'm not selling.

It is case by case, absolutelty. How about those sellers who ask zero questions from children? Who sell to anybody with cash?

Thanks for the parent factor, I did not mention that . Good point.

Here's where you lose me. And I've had everything from discuss to reef.
A "fish tank" , at least any I've owned, can be left for weeks on end unattended. Sometimes months or more.
Does the average fish tank need live cultured foods? You can pretty much automate "fish tanks" 100% these days, not so with the average dart tank. I really , really don't want a newbie pointing to this post saying "look, so and so says they are easier than my guppy tank...". Not good.


Rich

My main question in this thread .
How does the advanced darter view other advanced darters selling anything to anybody. No questions asked? Throwing children into the mix should cement the feeling.

Personally I think questions should be asked of anyone buying darts, and when I am selling at shows, I always do ask questions to at least make sure the basics are covered. Some people view selling the frogs purely as a business though, and I can understand where they come from. Not saying I necessarily agree or disagree with some of their practices, but business is business. When you are in it for the hobby side, it is completely different. Hobbyists want to see their animals thrive and live a good life, a business owner is just that, a business owner who needs to make a profit in order to sustain their business. Yes, this might be disappointing, but it is America after all, land of the free... right?

Well I guess it depends on the type of tank. I had some very heavily planted high tech planted tanks, and I couldn't walk away from them for more than a day or two without dosing, or checking levels. So I guess it depends on the type of fish tank we are talking about, and more so the point I was trying to make is that once the tank is established, it isn't super difficult to take care of. And once you get used to culturing fruit flies, they aren't really that difficult to take care of, I have been culturing for 6 years and I have never had any cultures crash except for Hydei and that was simply because the humidity in my room got too low and it takes them too long to produce since I don't keep them in a sterlite. I am in no way saying it is easier than a guppy tank, I am just saying that the amount of time it takes to take care of darts is similar to the amount of time that you need to commit to a fish tank IF you are properly taking care of it.

Someone has to make this conversation fun

The 'children' part threw me off. There's a nice kid on DB who researched for a couple years before getting his first darts. He's asked lots of questions, built an awesome viv, and finally got his first frogs. I would have no problem selling frogs to that kid.

If I was going to sell frogs, I would carefully select the people who purchase them. But, I'm not in the business of selling frogs, so, I can be selective like that. Someone in the 'frog' business might not be able to put off sales like that.

I don't know. I guess I expect the frog seller to make sure the buyer at least knows the basics (if selling in shows. not as easy when selling from a website). I also expect the frog seller to know enough about the frogs they are selling to make sure they can accurately advise the buyer. Really, a written guide to go along with the frogs would be a good idea.

Just so people don't keep bringing up the fact that their are wunderkind out there.
I personally have learned more dart info via phone conversations from a genius by the name of Alexander S. than from any adult, hands down. Alexander was 15 when I first started learning from him. Don't think I'm ignorant to the fact of such wunderkind.

Once again, I'm talking about those advanced breeders who sell to chidren who are not ready for darts, and ask zero questions of anybody, other than "how will you be paying for this?"

This subject is right about where the hobbyists split off from the business minded. Knowing where the froglets you raised go and wanting to know if the buyer knows what they are doing no matter their age is something I do pay attention to. Ive refused both sales and trades to people I viewed as not prepared to take on the responsibility of keeping the frogs in atleast a simple healthy manner. If an irresponsible ill prepared person buys the frogs the chance they get reintroduced back into the hobby with all known lineage not to mention healthy is very slim. Many of these frogs just die.

Michael