So we or at least I have heard from several reliable sources that Giant Orange & Regina are the same morph that were split long ago based on color traits. They were sepreated and given different names, which likely was a good marketing ploy by some crafty Europeans in an effort to sell 2 morphs where there was actually 1. So is this the ultimate line bred frog, or is it the poor sky blue Azureus?
What does the hobby say about ultimately throwing these 2 morphs together in breeding projects? I know Richard has done so with 1 pair and I applaud him for that, how about some pictures Wooded One? I for 1 believe these sources and this info however until now there has been no attempt to put these 2 morphs together except for the aforementioned. There is such a hesitation in our hobby, of coarse verifying and double checking before moving forward is best but I am convinced, anyone else care to weigh in....I promise James67 will not make anyone smoke a pipe...unless he fills it with the good stuff.
Richard if you have additional comments about this thread, please do so here as it is not welcome on the other forum...too much redundancy and it interfere's with the "Anyone here from Pigsknuckle Arkansas" threads....
What I heard in Holland from (this was in 2007) was the following.
The frogs were traded for years in Holland/Germany as Regina, being that they were from originally near the village of Regina, French Guyana. You guys may remember the business Reptile Specialties that operated out of somewhere in the Western US. Was run by John Uhern. In that time Ruud Schouten was John's main supplier, and would export to John. One such frog he exported was Reginas. The story goes that John gave them the name "Giant Orange" to market them better in the US.
Subsequent imports to the US through either different channels or to different importers got the same frogs but they remained "Regina's"
That's the story as I have heard it. I have no field experience in FG to back this up, and have never worked with "Giant Orange" as the hobby calls them, and has been a few years since I have work with "Regina's" Given the variation seen in other French Guyanese tincs (ie. Saul) I lean to them being the same thing.
I have a friend who is moving to FG for 2 years in February, and his field work will take him undoubtedly a few times to the region, so perhaps pics from the field can put this one to rest.
However it turns out they are two (or one) of the nicer tincs out there.
After I acquired my lemon drops I found I had made the mistake of trading for frogs which were very selectively bred for a certain trait. I thought I had done my research before the deal , finding the pattern in the wild and such, but I was wrong. Shame on me.
So I contacted Brent Brock for advise. Brent said that the best avenue for my lemon drops was to find 'normal' yellowback mates for my LDs .
That being said, if it is best to mix LDs with yellowbacks showing more common wild patterns, it would seem to be the best route to mix the reginas and giant orange if they are from the same original locale.
Geneticists?
Mark can't wait for your friend to get to FG and get us some concrete info back, hopefully in this case at least it will be a clear cut these are without a doubt the same morph and not the well these look like this and a little ways a way they look like this.
There is so much ambiguity in several morphs, hopefully we can get some great new info. Thanks for posting Mark.
Great info from Shockfrog in the Netherlands posted on another forum...
I don't see why there is this never ending debate in the US about something that has never been a debate in Europe. Dutch-Rana exported Regina frogs to the U.S. where they were sold as Giant Orange for marketing reasons. That's it! They are all the same!
Ofcourse there are some differences due to line breeding, but it's all still the genetic diversity of the natural population. Crossing these frogs would benefit the captive population for obvious genetic reasons.
Ofcourse you can compare crossing these frogs with crossing two breeds of dogs, and yes you won't be breeding a wolf. But you will breed genetic diversity into the dogs which is a good thing.
Then there's ofcourse the powder grey and powder blue legged tincs, they are also found in the same population. They actually live mixed, so it's not a trait that slowly changes from one end of the population to the other end. Feel free to mix these fenotypes at will
About the yellowback frogs: I really hate to see people selling some as lemon drops. They are obviously pulling your leg!
Ofcourse I understand why some people tend to think yellowbacks and some other morphs are actually part of one continual population and are therefore the same. Well, in this case I cannot fully agree. You have to ask yourself if the frogs look different. If they differ substantially compared to frogs from at the other end of the population, there is enough reason to keep the frogs seperate. The differences between the frogs tell you that there is little to none genetic interaction between them in nature, thus we should treat them the same in captivity.
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Working with: Epipedobates, Colosthetus, Mannophryne and Allobates
Great info from Shockfrog in the Netherlands posted on another forum...
I don't see why there is this never ending debate in the US about something that has never been a debate in Europe. Dutch-Rana exported Regina frogs to the U.S. where they were sold as Giant Orange for marketing reasons. That's it! They are all the same!
Ofcourse there are some differences due to line breeding, but it's all still the genetic diversity of the natural population. Crossing these frogs would benefit the captive population for obvious genetic reasons.
Ofcourse you can compare crossing these frogs with crossing two breeds of dogs, and yes you won't be breeding a wolf. But you will breed genetic diversity into the dogs which is a good thing.
Then there's ofcourse the powder grey and powder blue legged tincs, they are also found in the same population. They actually live mixed, so it's not a trait that slowly changes from one end of the population to the other end. Feel free to mix these fenotypes at will
About the yellowback frogs: I really hate to see people selling some as lemon drops. They are obviously pulling your leg!
Ofcourse I understand why some people tend to think yellowbacks and some other morphs are actually part of one continual population and are therefore the same. Well, in this case I cannot fully agree. You have to ask yourself if the frogs look different. If they differ substantially compared to frogs from at the other end of the population, there is enough reason to keep the frogs seperate. The differences between the frogs tell you that there is little to none genetic interaction between them in nature, thus we should treat them the same in captivity.
__________________
Working with: Epipedobates, Colosthetus, Mannophryne and Allobates
People here have debates (GO vs. regina included) because we don't want mixed locales here. Well, most of us don't...
The answer, confirmed mutilple times, has been out there for years, as most of us who stated earlier posted. But as Robb M. also brought up 'over there' we have a lot of hobbyists who do not keep track of lines, mix morphs, do what they think is a scientific 'experiment' by simply breeding frogs which would never breed in the wild ect. ect. When in doubt it's safer to keep pure than risk 'hybrids'.
Now, knowing that lemon drops are line bred in captivity for selective traits and are one locale with yellowbacks, and we know the same of GOs and reginas, it would seem the answer is to breed the GOs and reginas to each other and the yellowbacks to lemon drops. And any other known selectively bred frog back to it's more/most natual counter-part.
Regina/Giant Orange Line Bred Same Morph??
of the nicer tincs out there.
D. leucomellas 
D. tinctorius - azureus 
D. tinctorius - Brazilian Yellow Head 
D. tinctorius - Cobalt Blue 
D. tinctorius - Powder Blue 
O. pumilio - Bastimentos RFB 
P. terribilis - Yellow 
Nepenthes gymnamphora 
Linear Mode
