The same lineage tracking may be achieved. The below mentioned issues will not by ASN.

What I want to do is make sure that prices advertised by DBU members do not fall below agreed prices. Anyone not believing that frogs go out of the dart hobby due to prices falling too low can PM me and I will gladly elaborate and cite examples.
As mentioned earlier, yes frogs will be given away, just not advertised as "EVERYTHING MUST GO!! HURRY HURRY! ONE DAY ONLY! BLOW OUT PRICES...BLA BLA BLA"


Sorry, I'd like to guarantee it. And no, everyone does not offer health guarantees after the fact. Everyone fecal their frogs?...

Yes, we can stem that tide. At the very least within our union. None of the members will produce , sell, or trade hybrids. This will be a sticking point. Period.
Good luck with people registering their hybrids. Those coming to join our group are the ones tiered of other groups saying 'it is OK to produce, just make sure to register'. It's not OK with me, and it will not be OK with our union.

Good. Is testing on any level mandated? Is any sort of quarantine mandated? No matter who runs what?
No, the answer is no. Suggestions , but nothing mandated.

Four years is not young in my mind. Many (people and frogs) have come and gone by now.
Time for a new try. I'm not dogging anyone and absolutely love the thought behind ASN, just not the movement yet.
I'm not forcing anyone to join. But I do have a decent number around Chicagoland who are going to help get this rolling. It is something that will happen. And there will be up-to-date activity and progress postings.

Anyone wishing to add to a wish list of goals and how to accomplish them within a breeders union, please either email me or PM me to pass those along.

[QUOTE=Rich Frye;3202]



Yes, we can stem that tide. At the very least within our union. None of the members will produce , sell, or trade hybrids. This will be a sticking point. Period.
Good luck with people registering their hybrids. ]

You didnt mention buying the hybrids. I have seen the buyers line up to purchase them.
Michael

With you OWN two eyes.....or are you just going by some current "buzz" on Dendroboard?

Bear in mind, a couple nutty teenager postings and some self styled mixers, who mainly send each other a couple "pssst....pssst" private PM's does NOT a line, make.

Just sayin '

It's not that I disagree with any of your goals. I'm just not naive enough to think that people are going to follow all of the protocols set up. What you mention about quarantining and fecals is all detailed within the ASN handbook and is part of the program. Whether or not people actually fully follow the guidelines is unknown and not enforceable in any way. I don't believe that "price fixing" is going to help keep frogs from falling from the hobby. I personally think that the new frogs that keep entering the hobby that are new to the hobby do as much if not more to create "fads" and knock them out of the hobby.

I wish you luck with the program.

If not all, then at least most, which will be better than ...none. Because there will be a monitoring system. Not just a suggestion.


It is fact that fully at least one third of the 'executive' committee has openly either written or voiced the fact that they do not follow prescribed, recommended TWI/ASN quarantine procedures.
It is possible to monitor certain practises and husbandry . Is it going to be 100%? No. Will more than 66% (of our total membership, not just executives) follow quarantine procedures...YUP.



It certainly will not hurt. I can show how it will help, as oppose to doing nothing.


Thank you Tim.

Tim,

Rich and I have had some long azz talks about this and I feel I can chime in....

TWI/ASN is an awesome idea and has some good peeps behind it.

It's drawback is that it is too large in trying to do a lot of things at once with minimal resources. Leaf litter mag. Various and many Conservation issues. Conference. Steward program.

What Rich is proposing is to streamline and direct energy in darts - solely. I love me some Hylids but since I'm not working with them currently among other real life time constraints - I cannot devote time, effort or energy into them.

Darts I can. We can only do so much. There are a lot of things to consider with this venture, but consider it we must, because the current effort is just plodding along and not enough people are behind it.

If we can get HOBBY energy behind something then we just may have some "dynamite" to make a bang. Is it sad to say that conservation takes a backseat to U.S Capitalism? Yep, but it's the damn truth.

I took offense to Ron saying that Captive breeding has "nothing to do with conservation".

and

I still do.

Its over there, I have seen members who say they wont produce hybrids or mix species but when one shows up they all volunteer to give the hybrid a home or buy it. Same thing. I beleive you and I both were part of that last thread as far as debating it with the idiots go.. Its just as bad to buy, trade for or except one of the hybrids.
Michael

This is not going to be a this camp (ASN) or that camp (DBU) issue.
I'm not looking for thousands of members right off the bat. Just those who are tired with the same ol' same ol' and are actually willing to toe the line, not just suggest.
Right now I take being a member of ASN as someone who is concerned about registering their frogs and possibly testing to see if chytrid is somewhere in their collection.
DBU will be more than that, exclusive pertaining to darts, and will mandate certain practises.
No likey...no joiny.

...and we have plenty of time to figure out exactly how we deal with hybrids, hybridizers, hybrid sellers, puchasers, sniffers, or whatever. Let's leave hybrids as a latter aspect for now.

I would be interested, but I don't like the "darts only" policy. I would never give up my hylids.