How bout we cook up some lists and leave the legality part open for later discussion. I know of some sites that already provide some of this information. Here is a quick run down: http://www.saurian.net/frog_main.html
I think the main list should be narrowed down to frogs "commonly available" in the US hobby at first. Trying to cut down on initial wialing and gnashing of teeth.
I would suggest assigning teams to each genera. Or just tackling one at a time as a group.
Then there is the matter of asking for permission to reproduce the information. I think that dendrobase.de is a fantastic resource. Perhaps the fabled F&W frog cards can be made from this site?
I don't know much, but I am very willing to learn and help if I can!
I'm not exactly sure what some of those sites have to offer. Saurian especially.
I'm not trying to sound like I want to stifle a plan. But there is no plan as of yet. The is a big one in the works. But honestly, a bunch of volunteers not knowing exactly what needs to happen can actually slow the process down instead of helping.
Check out the Union thread...
I'm not trying to sound like I want to stifle a plan. But there is no plan as of yet. The is a big one in the works. But honestly, a bunch of volunteers not knowing exactly what needs to happen can actually slow the process down instead of helping.
Check out the Union thread...
Just went through the 8 pages of it and here is what I can pull out that would qualify as "needs doing":
1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Frye
It's simple. After we get a number of people willing to write up all our base beliefs and practises into one readable package those interested either sign on the dotted line or they do not.
2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Frye
Well, to start with there will be an absolute , black and white statement with exactly our thoughts and hopes, along with an actual game plan as to how we are going to accomplish it, pertaining to the dart hobby only.
3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Frye
I have a feeling we can work up a simple DBU site. Accepted members only.
4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Frye
I'm willing to take any input from anybody interested. I don't give a crap about hierarchy or politics (if you guys have not already noticed...I'm no freakin' diplomat) , just what is agreed upon to be the best for the hobby. Then we move on it. Those involved will proceed exactly with what they signed up for. Again, I'm not looking for what every single new person out there has a wish list for. We who have been in the hobby with vested interest , be it hobby or not, know there are certain aspects which need to be changed and we will work a mandate to make it happen.
At least within our union.
5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philsuma
EVERY military operation starts with a map. A data base. We need to complile a list of who has what and where and when it came in.
6.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre66
The best suggestion I can have for you guys is to develope the core values for the organization and then develope a mission statement. For controversial topics such as hybridization I would have a well researched and cited statement on the topic as well so members have all the facts when "making a stand" on the issue in other circles.
I'm not sure what I can gather from all of that that I can do today whilst wasting time between apartment showings.
Phil, Rich, anyone want to give me something to do? Something to write maybe?
Michael, I do not suggest the legality issue be ignored!
There are many frog species that are legal in the US, but they have been laundered. On these sheets instead of debating the the issue have a note about their legal/illegal status. There is much that could be done about it, but I don't think this list is the place for a legal debate.
-In the US legally but probably smuggled into EU then exported here because Country X has been closed since 1694
-Only legal US imports thru Person/Company X in 2001.
-Smuggled into US/EU, seized, then CB and released in 1994 to general public
-Pre CITES, new imports illegal, CB 'grandfathered' in
Along those lines. I know the legality isnt as black and white as that in most cases, but a 10 page paper on international law shouldn't be needed as long as references are provided.
Phil,
To keep the rest of us volunteers from covering the same ground twice, what work is being done?
As for permission-asking maybe this project could be run through TWI/ASN?
**edit**
The internet here is horrible and there have been several posts since I last read and was replying. I will read the Breeders Union thread. I'm willing to help, sometimes it just sucks being on standby.
I understand on the finding out issue and I agree that a species list should show that they were both smuggled and brought in illegally and legally. Its just going to be very hard to prove which is which. All have been well laundered and without proof of whats exactly is smuggled it is just hearsay and will not benefit the hobby.
As for the TWI, I have no opinion bad or good but I personally think that a new setting and atmosphere with no strings attached should put this project together. TWI is already running slower than planned and behind if I may respectfully say.
to everyone that has indicated that they have energy and are willing to work....
Just stay tuned and keep hitting the forums. Make sure you attend any local meetings in your area and if you can...Try to hit this I.A.D in baltimore area this fall.
Ground is being covered and people are indicating that they want to help and come on board but we have to realize this is a hobby and not a money making endeavor,so it will may not always have the perception of proceeding at a fast rate......but hang in there anyway.
Just to put things in perspective.
TWI/ASN has been around for over four years and has yet to put out any hard info on exactly what they plan to do for the dart hobby...
I'm not rushing into this.
And, this next statement may sound a bit self centered , but I assure you it is not,
I am going to put my name and reputation on this 'union' or whatever else we end up calling it. I have talked about it for years , brought it up years ago and there seems to be the right amount of interest and frustration with certain aspects of the hobby today.
The 'union' is going to be my show and it will take a bit of work by me behind the scenes to round up the experienced hobbyists, scientists, vets, in-field researchers, ect. to do this right. If anyone want s to attempt to start something on their own or go off on another tangent, that's fine by me. But there will be a 'union' formed by me at some point this year. Things don't happen over night.
I love the interest and sentiment on the volunteer level. If I don't contact you directly in the next few day/weeks it does not mean I don't have stuff for you to do, just that this is about the busiest time of year for me. I plan on getting much of the work hammered out in about a months time when things slow down a bit for me.
Thanks for all the interest and passion. Shows we really need to form a group to move this hobby forward.
Reticulata 
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