The tools to move the hobby foward and combat smuggling:

These are items we, as a hobby, simply MUST have on had in order to be considered professional.

Every plan starts with a map....then data....then facts:

1. Develope a comprehensive listing of all Dendrobatid Taxa including the current accepted nomenclature, scientific as well as common or even "hobby" names. This is the first logical step so we know what species are out there. All the points below flow from this first list.

2. Divide that list into all source countries, i.e all Nicaraguan dart frog species (just a couple) , other species that naturally occur in 2 or more different countries would be repeated.

3. FURTHER list all known morphs by country. There are many people in the hobby that have no idea that the "blue jeans" pumilio morph is located in Costa Rica and not Panama and as such - cannot be legally exported.

4. Develope a map of approximate ranges. We don't need to be scientific and exact here either. For those morphs that are arguable rare and in immediate danger of extirpation - we can reserve a little latitide and agree to not list them on a map.

With these lists and a decent range map.....we are now "armed" with irrefutable knowledge and can start tactical game planning.

5. Make a colour guide to all the dendrobatid morphs. THIS has actually been done already by Andrew for the Histo, Sylva and Lehmanni and it's fantastic (I have it on my wall, it's just that spectacular).

6. List the CITES status and legality by country of ALL species. This one may prove to be the hardest task - obviously, if you take a look at all the experienced hobbyists that are perplexed.

7. List the approximate (year would be good, year + season is better) year of entry of species into the U.S dart frog hobby and how they came to be brought in. azureus, Dendrobates castaneoticus...ect..ect - The HISTORY of the hobby.

Better get started now. I thought you were talking about doing the colour print id's for the other species already.
The tacking info will prove very hard in this plan. Most likely the truth wont be revealed.
Michael

Dude....I realize it's a huge undertaking fraught with literal mountains as well as disinformation ect.

...just doing one little bit at a time....

I've just never seen anyone put forth a blueprint or a "shopping list" and someone has to start the ball....

Yes! This is the sort of thinking that is absolutely necessary. It is solution based rather than continually re-iterating the problem.

Now get to work!! lol

I'd be happy to contribute my skills to a project like this. I do Actionscript development for a living and have been working with Disney to create several online virtual tours and maps - so an interface for something like this is right down my alley. Feel free to pm me if an interactive map/interface for the database is something of interest.

"Well.....we know for sure that W/C Panamanian Pumilio and Auratus are coming in legally. Check."
From another forum.


Phil,
Can you explain this statement you made please?
The last time I checked there were absolutely no commercial WC darts allowed shipped from Panama...
And you are right, those exported have been WC. As an x-law enforcement agent, what does this mean?

And for those who think I have forgotten the Breeders' Union idea, I have not . I have just been very busy, injured and been making mental notes as to how I plan on taking it forward and who to work with off forum and how. This is not something to be taken lightly, but getting everybody on the same page can be difficult , to say the least.
By fall I absolutely plan on having a full plan in hand. Come and see me at the Mideast Frog Feast in Chicago.

It's gonna be one of those "two forum" days...heh. Not my choice, obviously, but like you eluded to Rich, my past career and quite possibly, my internal hard wiring and DNA prohibits me from not trying to help an animal....or certain people.

I've seen CITES paper work in Florida business locations. WILD CAUGHT Panamanian auratus and pumilio are being legally imported into the U.S.

I think either you or I or both of us are missing each other here somewhere...

Do you mean the Escudo?

The Farm Raised claims? - We have thoroughly debunked those.

Where do you guys draw the ethical line?
Tell me the difference between someone grabbing all the pums (or known not pums, but rare obligates none the less) off the ground in Panama, in some areas where the populations are almost gone, and someone grabbing them from a closed country where there are so many darts grabbing will never depopulate the population. Obviously not condoning smuggling, if the animals are supposed to be FR and are not is this not smuggling? CITES nations OK or turn down imports under the knowledge and agreement that frogs exported will be those as descibed under the intent of the law. Sounds like illegal frogs to me...
The issues outside the country are just that . Foreign issues. You are not going to open a , ha ha ha, "FARM" in any country that has darts without greasing, and possibly outright illegal activities in and of themselves.
I keep reading people spouting that someone should open a farm and do it right. Well, I'll tell you right now that i know of someone who has been trying this in no less than three Central American and South American countries for the past few years now. He has many, many, many more hectares than any dart 'farmer' you can think of, has talked to many , many, officials and has basically had his money stolen and is in a 'holding pattern'...
It may get done, it may work out, but anybody who thinks that going down and simply buying up property (which in many cases is impossible or illegal to foreigners) and starting a 'farm' is going to work really has no idea of what is going on south of the border.
There are killings, kidnappings, theft, ect., but most of all corruption. I know, hard to believe , corruption in the drug countries. unheard of. In many of these countries U.S. dollars being down there usually only means one thing ...those dollars are staying put. If the product that those dollars paid for is delivered it is a bonus to whomever had said dollars in hand originally.

I mean that commercial WC darts are not allowed out of Panama . Period. Paperwork you have seen is either erroneous or F+W knows not of what they do. Either is possible.
Again, WCs are not allowed.
So, that being said, if you believe what I am telling you Phil, what is your ethical stand on WCs being brought in under false pretenses?
If it was found that other importer/exporters were doing the same exact thing in different nations, under different projects what would you think about it, ethically?

That was some interesting info there. While I know for a fact it is illegal to buy land in many countries down there as a foreigner not Panama I think but if the farming end of this buisness idea was going to work would they not have done it them selves by now with all of the laws and complaints about the dart frog countries as of now? We will never fully know what lies hidden in many of the locales or even what has disapeared from the wild as lets face it we are the sworn enemy to many down there. I personally think the only way to fix this system is by going after our own people at fault and fixing our own data banks and lines of communication with these countries. If they were to see us as a whole refusing these illegal transactions they may put forth an effort to fix their own exporting systems and laws of how its done.
Michael